Terminator 2: Judgement Day Passes With Flying Colors

Terminator 2: Judgement Day is an all time action classic, with Linda Hamilton doing pull-ups, Arnie playing Terminator-dad and the T-2000.

Today on You Love to See It, we dived deep into Terminator 2: Judgement Day, an all-time action classic that we both love (and cherish) and are able to critique, as you may have come to expect from our little movie rewatch podcast.

But a note about that. As we moved into “Doom Month” this August, we knew that — like the Terminator jumping into the vat of molten metal at the end — our time was nearly up. Terminator 2 will serve as our penultimate episode of You Love to See It, and next week, we’ll be ending on another banger and all-time classic, with Alien (1979), my easy answer when folks ask me “hey, what’s your favorite movie?”

It’s been a huge pleasure to watch, rewatch, discuss, critique, occasionally argue, and often agree with my incredible co-host (and co-hosts, in earlier iterations of YLTSI), and we are determined to go out on the biggest bang possible. Thanks for watching, listening, and being a rad audience. Hasta la vista, baby.

As always, you can listen to the show in the embed, or find it on your podcatcher of choice here. I’m including our show notes here, which contain some creative capitalization and spoilers, but should give a good sense of our research and thoughts moving into recording day. You can also read the full transcription below our show notes, if you prefer your podcast in this format!

Here’s our Terminator 2 Judgement Day Synopsis:

Terminator 2: Judgment Day is the sequel to The Terminator, both starring the only good republican Arnold Schwarzenegger. This time, however, instead of trying to destroy Sarah and John Connor, Arnie is sent to the past to protect them from the advances of Skynet, which this time has sent an even more advanced prototype. Amidst all the chasing, shooting, and exploding, Arnie’s T-800 learns some stuff about humans, while Robert Patrick’s T-100 turns into knives and melts through metal bars and shit. It’s pretty rad, honestly.

And our show notes, which have spoilers a-plenty!

Fernanda’s must-discuss items:

  • As someone who has a Terminator tattooed on the back of her OTHER leg, I must warn you once again that I might be a *tad* biased this week. My history with the Terminator is a bit similar to Robocop’s, in that it occupied that “vague but prevalent childhood memory” space until I decided to re-watch in my late teens/early 20s, and I was BLOWN. AWAY. To the surprise of no one, I made being a Terminator fan into my whole personality, and even offered it the highest 2000s honor: I made the opening theme the ringtone of my brand new iPhone. Of course this was years after having cutesy ringtones was a thing, least of all for full-grown adults, but I thought it was just *so cool* when my phone rang in the middle of my internship and all of the ACTUAL NEWSPAPER PEOPLE THAT WERE ACTUALLY WRITING A NEWSPAPER got to hear it. 
  • We were talking about perfect movies last week… I know we agreed there is no such thing as PERFECTION, I’d say, as far as action movies go, this comes pretty damn close. I think it truly nails the balance between humor, explosions, the sentimental factor, and a “message”. The characters are all so goddamn memorable, the soundtrack is killer, the one-liners are all just perfect little gems… Even the visual effects, which are obviously dated by our standards, are just so interesting. It really captures the whole late 80s/early 90s vibe/aesthetic while also advancing it, somehow. Not to mention… TEXTURE. SO. MUCH. TEXTURE. And such a specific visual identity, too. Every frame of T2 feels like it belongs to it, but also like it could also exist separately like its own little photograph. It truly is the golden standard, if you ask me.
    • I know the effects look dated now, but honestly I really like them. I think they made really smart choices within whatever technical limitations they may have had and watching now it doesn’t feel cringe — like, say, Silent Hill (which I may or may not have just watched). Everything is just so damn creative. I remain in awe of the scene where Robert Patrick goes through the metal bars in the mental institution. terminator 2 liquid metal
  • Now, an important matter: Petition to include Edward Furlong’s John Connor in the SUBHOF (Straight-Up Badass Hall Of Fame). I really feel like, as recognizable of a name as he is, he isn’t as appreciated as a straight-up hero as he should be. And while that is understandable given the inglorious task of sharing the screen with Scott Patrick, Linda Hamilton and Arnie, I’d argue it’s still not necessarily fair. Here’s my point-by-point defense of John Connor as a standalone action hero: 
  • Exceptional bike-riding skills
  • Has a cool friend with a mullet who refused to snitch
  • Altruistic king (called home to notify his foster parents that they might be in danger despite the fact they were assholes)
  • Pronounces “Nicaragua” properly
  • Sensitive & empathetic (won’t let the terminator kill random people, saves Sarah from mental institution, rushes to keep Sarah from killing Dyson)
  • Cares for the youths (kindly takes Dyson’s kid from the room so he won’t see Arnold reveal his Terminator arm) 
  • Hacker skills
  • Solid sense of humor (extra points for potty mouth)
  • Unwavering determination & sense of justice
  • A+ sense of style
  • Knows how to tell real mom from evil facsimile of mom
  • Having said all of that, I must once again remind everyone that Sarah Connor is the shit. That opening scene of her doing those PERFECT strict pull-ups? Honestly the main reason I work out every day (and still fail to do pull-ups because apparently some people are just assembled wrong but I digress). The way she manipulates everyone, gets out of her restraints with a single paper clip, and then beats the shit out of creepy licky dude? A paragon of smart, calculated, perfectly executed vengeance. The way she almost kills Dyson because she understands the stakes but is ultimately overcome by her own humanity? A relatably conflicted queen. Her refusal to call out for her son, despite the risk of being impaled by a shapeshifting robot that can also turn into metal? The mother to end all mothers (seriously, she could end every mother). She is the moment. 
  • Seriously, though, I truly love Linda Hamilton’s approach to the role. I feel like Sarah Connor could have been played a variety of ways, and maybe a lot of them would also have been good, but this mix of badassness and all-too-human vulnerability really works perfectly within this context of man vs. machine vs. actually man again because man built the machine and man likes to fuck it up battle. Shout-out to this NYT piece (by Kyle Buchanan, the same genius behind the Mad Max oral history) published in the wake of the newer Terminator (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/03/movies/linda-hamilton-terminator.html). As it turns out, Linda is actually the reason why Sarah is such a fucking badass:

In that seminal science-fiction film, Sarah Connor was an ordinary woman targeted by a time-traveling cyborg (Arnold Schwarzenegger) because she would later bear the savior of all mankind. The cast and crew worked long nights, and Hamilton spent much of her role cowering or on the run. “It was hard on the psyche,” she said. “When I finished, I fought some depression and kept dreaming about the Terminator.”  What she hadn’t dreamed of was a sequel. Years later, when Cameron contacted her out of the blue to see if she’d commit to “Terminator 2,” Hamilton had only one request: Instead of playing the damsel in distress again, she wanted Sarah to go crazy. “I wrote it to the hilt based on her directive,” Cameron told me.

  • But also!!!!

This version of Sarah Connor, locked away in a psychiatric institution, had war in her eyes and a body trained like a weapon. In order to play her, Hamilton would have to get into staggeringly good shape, since Sarah’s robo-apocalypse training included pull-ups and, eventually, bicep-straining shotgun pumps. There was just one thing: “I was six months pregnant when Jim came to me,” Hamilton said, “and I carry my babies big.”  

Hamilton was still married to the actor Bruce Abbott when Cameron first floated the idea of a “Terminator” sequel; by the time he had returned with a finished script, Hamilton was mothering her newborn son, Dalton, and Abbott had asked for a divorce. It was hardly the ideal time to take on such a demanding action film, yet Hamilton saw it as an opportunity to pour everything she was feeling into Sarah.  “Having been left, I just needed to get up on my feet and be strong and do nothing but mother my child and get ready for this film,” Hamilton said. “You wake up all alone with your body and go, ‘Hmm, these aren’t hips anymore — they’re flanks.’ To give myself permission to be that powerful, strong woman was necessary for my survival.”

  •  When John Connor asks somewhat hopelessly whether people are going to make it and Arnie says “It’s in your nature to destroy yourselves”? I felt that.
  • I remain incredibly peeved by people who criticize Arnie’s acting. He’s SO, SO good as the Terminator. We talked about this last week with Peter Weller as Robocop, and obviously there/s an entirely different tone to this particular non-human, but again here we have someone with a tricky task of making a robot seem likable and he nails it. He’s so naturally warm, effortlessly funny, and does such a great job playing off of Edward Furlong. And he did it while totally reframing the character from the previous movie. He went from ruthless killing machine to ultimate dad figure! Give this man an Oscar!!!!!!! A Golden Globe!!!! A Palme D’Or!!! A BAFTA!!! A Lifetime Achievement Award!!!!
  • On a less complimentary note, I found some bits of this Slant review actually quite interesting and made me think harder about some aspects of the movie. Here’s the ending of it, which I found to be quite thoughtful:

Striving for an epic, Cameron overdoes the repetitive scenes of familial bonding and vehicle- and building-shattering chaos, and his pointed disinterest in the existential quandaries raised by the machines, particularly by the T-1000’s fluid identity, grows increasingly distracting throughout the film. Why doesn’t the T-1000 better use its gift for shape-shifting, which is clearly inspired by the creature of John Carpenter’s The Thing? Because Cameron is obsessed with pummeling momentum above individual specificity. If his work has a philosophy, it’s one of ceaseless, pragmatic exertion. 

But that philosophy is marred in T2, as it is in much of Cameron’s subsequent work, by sloppy, conviction-less sentimentality. The violence of T2 doesn’t go with the cuddly daddy-bear routine that Schwarzenegger imports over from Kindergarten Cop, and, while that unlikely blend of tones provides friction, it also dulls and flattens the film. Cameron’s endless recycling here of The Terminator and Aliens, particularly in the climax set in the steel mill, also underscores that his true passion resides in the very effects and violence that he’s forced himself to consciously decry in this narrative. Cameron’s at war with the crass megaplex culture that he helped to pioneer. He’s Miles Dyson.

Danielle’s must-discuss items:

  • T2 is one of the earlier movies I remember coming out, and being a huge cultural phenomena, WAY before I watched it/was allowed to watch it, lol
  • Honestly, I know it’s a little basic, but I truly loved Linda Hamilton in this movie, i would consider this a formative “lady with muscles” performance for me, when i was young and wanted to be a lady with muscles myself. Muscles, smarts, KEEN survival instincts, no need for the shitty systems of oppression around her, of course. Not JUST muscles. But muscles nonetheless. terminator-2-linda-hamilton
  • I don’t suuuuper love the optics of her going after the black scientist’s family, that just hasn’t… aged all that well, I guess? Idk!
    • FP: Honestly I kind of thought about that, too, but I think it’s kind of progressive in that: a) a black scientist was in charge of such advanced technology that it destroys the world! and b) she would have gone after any family, honestly? And in this case I like that race plays no factor, this is just… A normal, nice-looking family. Maybe I’ve learned to settle for too little, but the fact that they even have people of color that actually impact the storyline instead of serving as mere accessories to it feels refreshing? Then again, they do kill Dyson and seem to be more heartbroken about the death of an actual robot than a human father and husband, so… 
  • The family dynamics portion of the movie has always been interesting to me (and it feels like it’s very much in conversation with Cameron’s previous Aliens: big, bombastic sci-fi action that has fairly “badass” (even, honestly, the PROTOTYPICAL badass women) women characters: but also, definitely, some front-and-center family dynamics. There is a lot of mommy and daddy stuff here, lol, and it’s very, very much in the text itself – Sarah’s voiceover about how the terminator is John’s best dad – the sane choice in an insane world. But I do like that there is a family dynamic here without a traditional hetero romance (they could have easily gone that route). Thinking back, that sort of tracks with Aliens as well — there’s a “family” of survivors, but not necessarily a romance or sexual relationship between the leading lady and dude. 
  • I agree completely on the blend of action elements, humor, message, core humanity and TEXTURE! This is an iconic, beloved movie for a very good reason, and I do love how gritty and grimy and industrial some scenes are – especially the very Promethean FIRE OF UNMAKING at the end. 

Here’s our Terminator 2: Judgement Day Transcript:

Fernanda: Oh, hi there, and welcome to You Love to See It, Fanbyte’s movie review podcast. Every month we pick a theme, every week we watch a movie, and then we decide where its VHS tape belongs in our delightful neighborhood video store. We’ll judge whether it’s got an advanced enough software to steal our clothes, boots, motorcycles, and a spot in our staff picks shelf; whether it’s no mimetic poly-alloy but it’s no ramshackle human either and therefore earns a spot in our totally fine middle aisle; or if it is nothing but a face-leaking creep who deserves to be nuclearly blasted straight into our dreaded dumpster, where every day is August 29th 1997 and no one moves their arms when they run. [Danielle laughs]

Working the counter today, we have yours truly, Fernanda “I know now why you cry” Prates and my fellow NeuroNet processor, Danielle “sweaty pull-ups” Riendeau. Hi, Danielle, how are you doing?

Danielle: I am ready for Judgment Day, the day where we judge the movie called Judgment Day.

Fernanda: [laughs] I mean, it’s a shame it’s not coming out on August 29, but close enough. It’s August.

Danielle: It’s pretty close, yeah.

Fernanda: It’s pretty close.

Danielle: It’s close.

Fernanda: It’s a day in August. We got the month. I feel like we deserve props for that. It was totally something we thought through, not an accident.

Danielle: Yeah, exactly. [both laugh]

Fernanda: We’ll explain all this in a bit, though. First, let’s remind our listeners what we’re doing here this month, and that is we are exploring some of our all time favorite movies, after accidentally ripping a hole into a hell dimension and finding out that reality isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, so we are escaping it for just a little while longer. Welcome to Doom Month, because, well, here we are. [Danielle laughs] This week, we are once again trying to stop Skynet from being total assholes with 1991’s Terminator 2: Judgment Day, also known as T2.

[trailer plays]

Fernanda: Okay, so we are about to fly into our first segment called Setting the Scene, which is where we introduce the movie at hand and have a little spoiler-free chat about our own personal histories with it. But first, to those unfamiliar with the story: first of all, what the hell are you doing with your life? [Danielle laughs] Go fix this right now. This is absurd. But also, here is a brief summary.

Terminator 2: Judgment Day is the sequel to The Terminator, both starring the only good Republican, Arnold Schwarzenegger. This time, however, instead of trying to destroy Sarah and John Connor, Arnie is sent to the past to protect them from the advances of Skynet, which this time has sent an even more advanced prototype to the past. Amidst all the chasing, shooting, and exploding, Arnie’s T-800 learns some stuff about humans, while Robert Patrick’s T-1000 turns into knives and melts through metal bars and shit. It’s pretty rad, honestly, but we’ll get into all the intricacies of the movie in due time.

First, we shall continue on with our, again, spoiler-free Setting the Scene segment. And this is an interesting one, because, as we explained in the intro, we’re doing kind of our favorites. I picked the first movie of the month, Robocop. Danielle is gonna pick the movie that we’re gonna do next week, but this one, Terminator 2, was kind of a mutual one. We both share a love for this specific cinematic masterpiece. [Danielle laughs] So I’m very interested in what we’re gonna come to here, but first, Danielle, please tell me a little bit more about your relationship with not just T2, but also your Terminator history.

Danielle: Yeah, absolutely. So, I have kind of a funny one in that I remember this movie coming out. I was six, I think, maybe? Seven? Probably seven. I was probably seven. And like, I remember it being a cultural phenomenon but didn’t see it until a little bit later.

Fernanda: Mm.

Danielle: And I am pretty sure…I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the first time I actually encountered the Terminator like franchise was a ride slash show at Universal Studios Orlando, which was like actually a pretty great show. I’m only saying it’s a ride ’cause I think the seats move a tiny bit, but it’s not like they really, really move. It’s like in a theater, and the whole thing was like a wonderful– they got rid of it for like a horrible, terrible like Transformers piece of shit thing.

Fernanda: Ugh.

Danielle: So it’s like real sad. Universal used to have some banger like shows.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: There was like a really amazing show about like Hitchcock and his classic movies, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, this was extremely cool, and it was like, oh, it’s framed as a presentation that Cyberdyne Industries was gonna show you their new robots, and then of course it kind of goes wrong.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: And then a person on an actual motorcycle comes out on a stage, and it’s like, “Oh, it’s a Terminator, and oh my God!” and it’s like a 3d movie and a whole thing. I was very excited about all of this shit, and then I actually saw this movie, thought it was great, thought it was like an action classic, just like a perfect…even though I know it’s early nineties, I sort of think of it as like…I think of it as an eighties movie, and this is something maybe we’ll talk about later. [laughs]

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: But like, I just think of it as like so in keeping with The Abyss and Aliens that like, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] it’s just like the, you know, it just came out a little bit later, but it’s still like in that time, [Fernanda: “Yeah”] that early nineties time of like just the prototypical action movie that has a heart kind of thing, you know? So yeah, long and storied history with this movie and this franchise. Love the first movie as well, but yeah, it’s a vibe. It’s such a vibe.

Fernanda: It’s a vibe.

Danielle: And it’s like a…if you like James Cameron movies, this is like the one, I would say. This and Aliens are like, that’s what’s going on with James Cameron.

Fernanda: No love for Avatar? [laughs]

Danielle: Has he lost some of his touch? I don’t know. Or have we lost touch with him? I don’t know! But this is like where that…

Fernanda: No, Avatar is just not good, basically. I don’t know. I don’t remember any of it.

Danielle: I saw it in theaters and haven’t seen it since, so I’m like, I don’t even know.

Fernanda: I don’t…

Danielle: I don’t know.

Fernanda: There’s no movie that I think I’ve seen that I remember less of, [Danielle: “Sure”] that I saw like in the movies with no distractions, but.

Danielle: Yes. Yes. That’s a really good point. I know there’s some, you know, flying dinosaur action, and the guy, and Sigourney Weaver’s in it, and yeah, that’s…

Fernanda: That’s literally the only thing I remember.

Danielle: Yeah. [laughs]

Fernanda: Which, granted, will upgrade a movie automatically, just having her there.

Danielle: Right, that’s a plus, you know? But.

Fernanda: Even the movie with– isn’t there a movie with her and, um…I always forget her name. Jennifer Love Hewitt. They play scammers.

Danielle: Okay, I actually love that movie. I’m not gonna lie. Heartbreakers is actually a hysterically funny movie.

Fernanda: Heartbreakers. Heartbreakers.

Danielle: I think it’s directed by like a Simpsons writer, like a long time Simpsons writer and has that sense of humor, and that is like a genuinely very funny movie. I’m just putting that one out there. So, yeah.

Fernanda: I saw it a bunch when I was a kid. I don’t know.

Danielle: Okay.

Fernanda: Maybe…yeah. Well, again, proof that Sigourney Weaver is just Sigourney Weaver.

Danielle: Is just incredible, yeah. Incredible.

Fernanda: She exists in a realm different than ours. Unfortunately, she’s not in this movie, but that did not keep me from fully appreciating it. I think like the history, it’s kind of like similar to Robocop in that I kind of grew up with the Terminator as this like [Danielle: “Mm”] vague presence in my life. Like, everybody knew who the Terminator was. It was just like, we made Terminator jokes. We all talked about the Terminator, but I had no idea what the Terminator actually did. I didn’t watch the movies. I just, I maybe watched bits and pieces when I was a kid, but I had no like real connection to it.

Danielle: Sure.

Fernanda: And then, kind of like with Robocop too, in my early twenties, I watched 1 and 2 kind of in a row, and I…as I have been known to do, I made the movie my entire personality. [Danielle laughs] Like, I just became completely ridiculously obsessed with it to the point that like my ring tone was the theme song that we were just singing along to before. [both start singing theme]

Danielle: So good. [both continue singing]

Fernanda: Okay, well, you know what we’re talking about, okay?

Danielle: [laughs] Yeah.

Fernanda: A banger, a timeless banger. And mind you, again, I was in my early twenties. I was not a child anymore. It was no longer cute to have like little theme ringtones. I actually paid money for that, and then like, [Danielle laughs] I was working at a newspaper, like with actual people who wrote the newspaper, and then suddenly the Terminator theme would come on. [Danielle laughs] And you’d think I was embarrassed, but I wasn’t. I was very proud.

Danielle: [laughs] Yes!

Fernanda: I was like, look how cool I am.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: With my little Terminator ringtone. So that’s…I actually have Sarah Connor as my Slack icon, as you guys know, so.

Danielle: Yes. Yes, you do.

Fernanda: And I have a Terminator tattooed on the back of my other leg. It’s Robocop on one and then the T-800 prototype, the exoskeleton. It’s not actual Arnold Schwarzenegger, not that it makes– I think it makes it a little bit better, I think. [laughs] Tattooed on my leg, so again, I’ve gotta let people know of my bias going into this one, but I promise, uh, we talked about this with Robocop, and I’m sure it will come up again. There’s no such thing as a perfect movie.

Danielle: Sure, sure.

Fernanda: And I’m keeping an open mind and heart to discussing the negative aspects of T2 as well, though I’m not sure they exist, but okay. [Danielle laughs] We’ll engage this argument earnestly. [laughs]

Danielle: Fair, fair. Yes.

Fernanda: In our next segment, which we like to call Stripping It Down.


Fernanda: Now, Stripping It Down, as our dear listeners already know, is the part of the episode where we discuss specific details of the film, including aspects of the plot and characters, otherwise known as spoilers. So again, if you haven’t watched this movie, first of all, address this, fix your life. [Danielle laughs] I hate to quote this GIF, but I’ll do it, the Michael Jordan GIF: stop, get help. Like this, there’s no excuse [Danielle laughs] for you to be a person existing in 2022 not having watched Terminator 2: Judgment Day, but in case you haven’t and you still want to listen on, there will be spoilers. So, now you know, I guess. [both laugh] First of all, something I feel we can all agree on, Danielle.

Danielle: Yes.

Fernanda: Like, this is the main…I feel like there’s no disliking the character Sarah Connor. She really became sort of the quintessential action movie female badass, and I think there is a good reason for that. And I do think that rewatching it again yesterday for this episode, I kind of saw some layers to her that I hadn’t before. Like, I had in my mind that she was this total badass. I had kind of forgotten that she has these moments of vulnerability, of fragility, and of just being like a person who [Danielle: “Yeah”] is conflicted about, you know, the mission that she has. And just added layers. She too contains multitudes.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: And of course she’s played by Linda Hamilton, who kind of stepped away from the spotlight before she reprised the role just recently in the newer Terminator, with Mackenzie Davis.

Danielle: Mm.

Fernanda: And I will talk about this in a little bit. There’s a very good New York Times profile piece kind of talking about the whole experience, but I do feel like she completely nails the character of Sarah Connor, to the point that I feel like all of us probably have a hard time picturing anybody else doing it. But I wanted to hear from you, like, what are your feelings and thoughts on the character of Sarah Connor and particularly as played by Linda Hamilton?

Danielle: Yeah, absolutely. So, she really is like a very formative character for me, because when I was young, when I was little, I wanted to be a lady with muscles. [laughs]

Fernanda: Mm-hmm. [laughs]

Danielle: Right? This is like an image for me.

Fernanda: Lady with muscles, trademark. It’s an entity.

Danielle: Right? Like, lady with muscles, not a whole lot in the cultural iconography, especially as a sheltered tiny child who didn’t have access to the internet.

Fernanda: Mm.

Danielle: There was no internet! I didn’t have that! I mean, there was probably, you know, ARPANET or whatever, but that’s not something I had until I was like a teenager. So like, this was like, oh, she’s powerful. She can do pull-ups. She has muscles and shoulders, and not just that, she’s super powerful and muscular, like physically powerful, but also really fucking smart.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: She figures out every puzzle in front of her, right? Like, she figures out how to get out of this shitty shithole system, you know, where she’s being put in this, you know, literal psychiatric hospital. Like, I had a really interesting thought as I was watching this. I didn’t put it in my notes, but it was something that it sort of like resonated a little bit with me. Like, oh, we have a little bit of connective tissue here with another great 1991 film with an amazing woman protagonist. That would be, of course, Jody Foster in Silence of the Lambs.

Fernanda: Ooh!

Danielle: Like, both of them spend a lot of time in psychiatric hospitals.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: Both of them are like, you know, kind of badasses without necessarily even looking like it. Like, Sarah Connor looks more like a badass. She physically is powerful [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] and has like, you know, physically powerful like shoulders and everything. But it’s not like…you wouldn’t look at her from across a football field and think like, “Oh, watch out.” You know, she’s still not looking…

Fernanda: If she’s wearing sleeves, we wouldn’t know. [laughs]

Danielle: Right. And like, it’s not like she’s a massive, massive human. Like, she’s not, she’s pretty normally sized. She just, you know, has muscles. [laughs]

Fernanda: She puts on a sweater, and we have no idea that that lady can kill you.

Danielle: You wouldn’t know, yeah. So still like relatively unassuming in a lot of ways and going up against very, very male sort of systems here. Obviously it’s like an existential threat to humanity, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] and it’s that, you know, people wage war and, you know, progress. The military industrial complex is bad, et cetera, et cetera.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: And there, it’s like serial killers are bad, but also, you know, the entire law enforcement apparatus is not great. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I was like kind of thinking about this the whole time. Also starring women who, you know, are queer in real life [Fernanda: “Yeah”] or have had times of queerness in their lives. [laughs]

Fernanda: Linda Hamilton did? I didn’t know.

Danielle: I believe so, which is all anybody talked about in my circles, [Fernanda: “Ooh”] and I mean in a horrible negative way, like…

Fernanda: Ugh.

Danielle: I don’t remember who said it, but some relative of mine was like, “Oh yeah, she’s a lesbian now,” which is always like, [mumbles] fantastic. [Fernanda laughs] Which also means like, oh, I should figure out what happened with her, because that’s cool and good, and everyone in my family does not understand why that’s cool and good. Anyway. Yeah. Also she’s 5’6”. She’s not a huge person. She’s not like super tall or anything, just saying. So yeah, this is all to say: very, very, very formative for me. Very, very aspirational for me. I mean, obviously like, she does… [sighs] We’ll talk about this later. We’ll talk about this later. There are some optics about like, you know, her going after Dyson’s family that are like a little much, maybe, sometimes. But otherwise, like she’s a fucking badass. She’s trying to save humanity. She has a kid, and she does have this vulnerability too. She’s still human.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Like, she has not become a robot in trying to fight the robots, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] which I think is a very important point. So yes, incredible performance, incredible character, iconic in every way, and just really magnetic on screen as well.

Fernanda: Yeah, I feel like this, the part where– well, here’s the thing, right? Like the whole concept of the movie is like, she’s on a mission. She has to protect the world from blowing up from a nuclear blast and save three million lives, so you can understand why she would be a little ruthless [Danielle: “Yeah”] in the way she goes about it. Unfortunately that means she goes into this poor scientist’s house who hasn’t done anything wrong yet, and very Minority Report shit, like…

Danielle: Yes.

Fernanda: He’s paying for crimes he has yet to commit. He’s a scientist, and she goes out shooting, and the only reason why he doesn’t die right away is because his kid shows up playing with a truck, so she could have just slaughtered this family. She does have like a crisis of conscience when it comes time to actually shoot him, and then she breaks down, and that’s like one of the– that’s kind of the moment where it’s supposed to kind of reveal Sarah Connor’s humanity, right? Like, oh, she really is– because she had to really become machine-like, and that’s shown in the early scenes where she’s doing the perfect strict pull-ups, by the way.

Danielle: Oh, yeah they’re good.

Fernanda: The reason why I still work out. My dream. [Danielle laughs] I don’t think I– again, I cannot do pull-ups. I think I was just assembled wrong, and like, this is just not in the cards for me, but I will continue aspiring to that from that scene. And, you know, she breaks out of the mental institution by basically manipulating the situation and being incredibly smart about it. And then, you know, you have that moment where the smart thing would be to kill Dyson, in a way, right? Well, it wouldn’t be, because then we find out that there’s a bunch of stuff and a bunch of research that they would have had to destroy too, so just killing him would have been stupid actually. [laughs] But then again, you know, convincing him that you have come from the future to warn him that he’s about to cause a nuclear holocaust does seem like a stretch, so you can see–

Danielle: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fernanda: You can see where her mind was at, at the moment.

Danielle: I do get it. Yeah. [Fernanda laughs] There is sufficient motivation here, for sure, for sure.

Fernanda: Like, this sucks, but you can see what she was thinking. And then you realize at that moment, like she has that breakdown, and it’s like, oh, no, she’s still like a person and a mom, because Edward Furlong, John Connor appears and they have that little moment, but. I do, I love that the fact that Sarah Connor, as this badass, which is a departure from the first movie, right? The whole idea of the first movie, she’s this kind of like lost ingenue. She doesn’t know what’s happening, then Kyle Reese appears and et cetera, et cetera. And then you can see like she’s building towards becoming like a warrior, but she’s not one yet.

Danielle: Yes.

Fernanda: And in this movie, she’s a total badass. And I love that this was actually because of Linda Hamilton, and this New York Times piece that I mentioned that came out in sort of the wake of the newer Terminator, which she did, by the way, at age 62, and she still looks shredded!

Danielle: Fuck yeah! Yep. Yep.

Fernanda: [laughs] But she talked about when James Cameron called, and she talked about how she had nightmares and stuff because after the first movie, and when James Cameron, [Danielle: “Yeah”] who ended up becoming notoriously her husband, offered her the role for the second movie, she was like, “Okay, but this time I want to be a badass.” [both laugh] I don’t want to be [Danielle: “Yeah”] damsel in distress, you know? I want to be a bad bitch, basically.

Danielle: Yes.

Fernanda: Not her words, mine. And then he said, even in this piece is quoted as saying, “I wrote it to the hilt based on her directive.” So, good on you. Good on you, Linda Hamilton, for giving us this particular badass Sarah Connor. But it was very interesting, ’cause she talked about how the little hiccup on this situation was that she was six months pregnant [Danielle: “Oh my God”] when she got the offer. [laughs]

Danielle: Oh my God!

Fernanda: And in her words, “I carry my babies big.” [Danielle laughs] And she, right after that, like she was married to the actor Bruce Abbott, and then, by the time they had a finished script– I’m reading this from the New York Times. “By the time he had returned with a finished script, Hamilton was mothering her newborn son Dalton, and Abbott had asked for a divorce. It was hardly the ideal time to take on such a demanding action film, yet Hamilton saw it as opportunity to pour everything she was feeling into Sarah. ‘Having been left, I just needed to get up on my feet and be strong and do nothing but mother my child and get ready for this film,’ Hamilton said. ‘You wake up all alone with your body and go, mm, these aren’t hips anymore, they’re flanks. To give myself permission to be that powerful, strong woman was necessary for my survival.’”

Which is very interesting. Like, apart from the sort of like body idea of it, of course you don’t need to look a certain way to be strong. That’s, you know, her physique in this movie, I bet came like with some misery.

Danielle: Sure.

Fernanda: We talked about Demi Moore in Striptease, right? Like, this is different, but I’m sure there was a lot of like dieting and working out really hard. And I don’t know, I’m not gonna accuse anybody of taking steroids, but it’s Hollywood. Who knows? [Danielle laughs] So it’s not about just that, but I do think it’s interesting that, you know, she was in this moment of personal fragility, and strengthening herself within this character was also something that helped her in the personal life.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: Like, I just thought that was very interesting. And maybe that’s what comes through in Sarah in a way, because…

Danielle: I think it does.

Fernanda: Right?

Danielle: Yeah. I really think it does. And like, there is something about this. One of my main things here that I do want to talk about, and this is, like to be clear, it’s a movie I do love, but my main…

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: If it’s even criticism, I’m not sure, but it’s like a thing I think about every time I watch this. It’s kind of the same thing that I think about every time I watch Aliens, which is the sort of like, there’s a lot of family dynamics here, right?

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: There’s a lot about this that is like this character as a fucking badass who is strong and smart, physically powerful here, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] can do all the things, is also vulnerable, is also human, but also, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] also, also is a mom.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: That’s happening in both of these movies, right? For me, it’s not necessarily my favorite thing, at least in Aliens. It works here, to some extent, because it is that sort of like, all right, she is doing this to protect her son. She is doing this because her son is the only hope for humanity. [laughs]

Fernanda: Mm-hmm, that too. [laughs]

Danielle: And it’s like, that’s an extra layer, right? Like that’s another layer here that’s like, yeah, he’s the one who can be the commander who has any shot at killing all the machines.

Fernanda: Like, fortunately…

Danielle: Therefore, we gotta go extra, you know? [both laugh] So yeah, it’s…

Fernanda: Losing my son would be a personal loss but also a literal loss to the entire planet, so. No pressure, though.

Danielle: Also, we’re all gonna fucking die if we lose my son, so like, maybe listen to me, you know? [both laugh] But it does, like, that quote that you have about like, she has war in her eyes, like she is focused. She is determined. She has it. And like, I do actually like that the actress like put herself into it to that extent.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: Like that…again, I’m sure there’s personal pain here as well, but…you know, I’m not gonna say, oh, I don’t know if it’s worth it or not. I’m not that person. But it does appear that she did make some lemonade from the situation, is all I’m saying.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Like if it is this beautiful performance, that is a cool thing for us to appreciate, without putting a value judgment on it. [laughs]

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: It could be worse. She could be me, suffering and not making art out of my pain. [laughs]

Danielle: Right, like… [laughs]

Fernanda: All this personal misery, just lost, you know?

Danielle: And she is like very, very upfront about how she has suffered from bipolar disorder, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] how she has suffered really, really horrifically from mental health issues and that like, you know, she’s been very open about that and like how she’s tried to manage it and how she’s tried to like get through things in her life, which I think is amazing.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: And maybe there’s some of that in this performance too. I mean, obviously it’s in the text in like a real obvious way, that like she is stuck in a horrible psychiatric hospital, like an abusive…I guess, content warning here, just to say, like an abusive psychiatric hospital environment.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Like, awful, awful, awful. Like, for someone who, you know, I’m not saying I have anything like her struggles, but I have mental health issues myself.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: Like, that’s a nightmare environment. Like, that is an absolute nightmare. Like, how could you not maybe use some of that in your acting and like how badly you want to get out and how much you have to put into yourself to get out.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: The way she trains herself, the character trains herself to be physically strong to make an escape, how she like times her escape so perfectly, you know, how she gets through the creeps and the awful, awful people, how she makes her way through is like I think actually kind of inspiring. I’ll say it. I think it is.

Fernanda: It is inspiring.

Danielle: And the fact that the actress kind of…maybe I’m applying a little bit here, but she is very, very open about struggling with mental health. Like, I have to assume she used some of that, so yeah.

Fernanda: Another like interesting aspect of it to me is also like in the same story, they kind of talk– ’cause, so her and James Cameron went on to have like what appears have been a pretty like tumultuous relationship.

Danielle: Like a two year marriage, something like that. [laughs]

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: And that it was like, she talked about like just being distraught for years after it ended and everything like that.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: And then she talks about how she feels like James Cameron and her both kind of fell in love with Sarah Connor.

Danielle: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Fernanda: Right? And that like, that ended up wrapped…and to me that’s just so wild, because you like to think– and we talked about this, right? We see these people involved in these movies, especially the high budget, super like [Danielle: “Yeah”] prolific guys like James Cameron, and you like to think, you know, they come in, do their job, leave, and their lives are their lives and their artistic lives. And then you see like, no, they’re not above like kind of wrapping like their most inner selves around this kind of thing, and like the fact that she kind of fell for– he kind of fell for Sarah is just very interesting and something I would…I would think it has to happen to actors, right? sometimes.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: Like that you end up becoming your character in some ways or that people end up projecting your character on you. And if you have a character like Sarah Connor which shapes someone’s career to such this huge extent, right? Like, it must be very interesting to navigate life as yourself.

Danielle: For real.

Fernanda: And trying to remind people like, no, I’m not this badass vagrant who, you know, is out there saving mankind. I’m just a person. I’m just Linda.

Danielle: [laughs] Yeah.

Fernanda: That’s gotta fuck with you.

Danielle: Right? [laughs]

Fernanda: Yeah. The one little quote, just a gossipy thing, ’cause I like to throw it in, [Danielle: “Oh, I love it”] ’cause she mentions it in the story. She says the relationship with James Cameron “was a mystery to all of us, even Jim and myself, [Danielle: “Ha! Huh”] because we are terribly mismatched.” She said, “I used to say we fit together like a puzzle. Everywhere he’s convex, I’m concave.” So intelligent, so smart, such vocabulary.

Danielle: Wow, yeah.

Fernanda: Good on you, Linda. [both laugh] But yeah, this story is by Kyle Buchanan, who also, if I’m not mistaken, wrote that Mad Max oral history that I talked about in our Mad Max episode.

Danielle: Ah, yes.

Fernanda: The Fury Road episode, which by the way is amazing and you should listen to it.

Danielle: Yes.

Fernanda: But yeah, it’s a very interesting little piece and kind of like touches on all of that and then obviously returning at 62 to a role she kind of like distanced herself from and to a life she distanced herself from, because she’s apparently is not like big on the spotlight, and you know, her decision to return to the role. There’s also some interesting bits like James Cameron saying she could be the female Bruce Willis if she wanted to, and she was like, “I don’t want to. [Danielle laughs] That’s not what I want to do.”

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: Honestly?

Danielle: She wants be Linda Hamilton, okay? [both laugh]

Fernanda: I mean, I would love to be the female Bruce Willis, but you know, I can also understand not wanting to be.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: But yeah, I think that Sarah Connor is like an obvious character to love, but I would like to use this time [Danielle: “Yes”] to make my case, okay, for a less revered character.

Danielle: Oh, yes.

Fernanda: If you say the name John Connor, everybody knows who you’re talking about. John Connor, leader of the resistance. He saves like the world, but in the first movie, obviously it’s not about him. It’s about Reese.

Danielle: Right.

Fernanda: And obviously Linda Hamilton, Sarah Connor. But in this movie, John Connor is a kid. So it’s also– and he’s sharing the screen with Robert Patrick, who is just amazing as this sociopathic robot that can turn into metal shit.

Danielle: [laughs] Yeah.

Fernanda: Arnie, of course, my good friend Arnie. We’ve established that’s how I call him since we took that one picture together.

Danielle: He’s numero uno, and you know. [both laugh]

Fernanda: Absolutely. And obviously Linda Hamilton. And I understand why those characters would be, you know, he’s just a kid, while those characters are sort of like the breakout stars, but in watching this movie last night, I was really impressed with John Connor the character, [Danielle: “Yes!”] as played by Edward Furlong. He is an absolute badass. He’s nice. He’s human. He can ride bikes. He has a really cool friend with a mullet who doesn’t snitch on him. [Danielle laughs] He pronounced Nicaragua so perfectly in a very like casual way. I was very impressed. He stops the Terminator from killing people. Granted, he’s still destroying their knees, which as we know is a nightmare thing to heal from, but still, better than death. He saves Sarah. He rushes to keep Sarah from killing Dyson. He kindly, kindly approaches Dyson’s son and says, “Let’s go to the other room, child,” [Danielle: “Yeah”] so he doesn’t see Arnie revealing his mechanic arm. He can hack into shit. He’s got a good sense of humor, he’s got A+ sense of style, and he can tell his real mom from fake mom. I rest my case. [Danielle laughs] John Connor deserves more justice. That’s all I’m gonna say.

Danielle: Honestly, you’ve made the case. I’m a hundred percent. [Fernanda laughs] I always kinda liked him, you know?

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: And he’s like a fairly relatable kid too, [Danielle: “Mm-hmm”] but he’s not an annoying kid, which is like, I know that sounds so basic, but that really helps.

Fernanda: Oh, yes.

Danielle: That really, really, really helps a lot. And like, yeah, I fully agree with you. He’s sensitive, and he’s kind, and he understands people. You got it. You totally got it. Yep. John Connor, a real one. I’ll drink to that.

Fernanda: A real one!

Danielle: I’ll buy that for a dollar, you know?

Fernanda: [laughs] I feel like watching the movie for the first time, like, it’d be easy to sleep on John Connor.

Danielle: Right, right.

Fernanda: Because you know, you just have so much going on. And then this time I was like, I was so impressed. He’s like, “You just can’t kill people.” [Danielle sighs] And then Arnold’s like, “Why not?” and just trust me on this. Even his asshole foster parents. He’s like, they’re assholes, but I gotta call them to let them know that they’re about to die.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: Beautiful thing he did.

Danielle: He cares! He cares.

Fernanda: He cares. Empathetic, sensitive John Connor.

Danielle: Can we pour one out for mullet kid too?

Fernanda: Mullet kid.

Danielle: Let’s pour one out for mullet kid, who like, you know, he was a real one. He didn’t snitch. He was a real– he didn’t have many lines, but he was a real one. [laughs]

Fernanda: He was. Dude, the cops– like Robert Patrick as a cop stops and asks those two girls if they know Sarah Connor. They just snitch right away.

Danielle: Snitched up and down the road!

Fernanda: They’re just out there talking to this cop. Who knows what the kid is up to?

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: You need to protect your own. Well, mullet kid, he just looks at him straight in the eye and says, “Nope, no idea who that is.” Amazing!

Danielle: What a real one!

Fernanda: Amazing.

Danielle: What a real one. That’s real loyalty right there. You don’t have many lines, but you make the most of… [both laugh]

Fernanda: So many underrated characters in this movie, but yeah, I made my case for John Connor, and I think he’s actually played…I was actually, I saw Terminator Genisys and completely forgot all about it.

Danielle: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Fernanda: But it is with John–

Danielle: That’s a movie that I– sorry, go ahead, please.

Fernanda: You saw it? Did you see it?

Danielle: I think I did. [Fernanda laughs] Now, I forget which one was Genisys and which one was something else.

Fernanda: Genisys is the one with Amelia freaking Clark as Sarah Connor.

Danielle: I think I saw that one.

Fernanda: Ugh. And Jason Clark as John Connor, and I really like Jason Clark.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: He’s a very versatile actor, but…

Fernanda: He is, he is.

Fernanda: Amelia Clark, I’m sorry, I nurture a very irrational hatred for her. I think she’s a terrible actress.

Danielle: Oh, is it the wig that she had to wear all that time? [Fernanda laughs] Was it the wig? ‘Cause I understand, like… [laughs]

Fernanda: It could be the wig.

Danielle: That wig is like bigger than her body. I don’t know. Like, that wig is…I’m sorry, I’m going down a different path here, [Fernanda: “No, no, no”] but like, I’m trying to understand the deep dark recesses of your psyche, and I get it. You know, I do get it.

Fernanda: You don’t want to go there. You don’t want to go there, Danielle.

Danielle: [laughs] Yeah.

Fernanda: But yeah.

Danielle: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fernanda: So, I have a recollection of John Connor being a good character in this movie, but again, I don’t remember a lot, so I don’t want to commit too hard to this narrative. [laughs]

Danielle: Honestly?

Fernanda: Let’s just say that John Connor as Edward Furlong is a definitive John Connor is my final take on this situation.

Danielle: I suppose. All right, well, here’s the thing. Here’s the thing I’m gonna posit to you. Like, the Terminator movies and the Alien movies have so much in common, including that, of course, James Cameron directed the second of each iteration, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] which is a beloved, incredible movie in both, of course. And both of them kind of go off the rails, although I would argue that Alien 3 is actually a great movie.

Fernanda: I liked it. Isn’t it David Fincher?

Danielle: It is, yeah. So I actually think that’s like a great movie, where I don’t know that I would say that about Terminator 3.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Correct.

Danielle: You know, Kristanna Loken is very underrated. I actually think she’s underrated. Like, I don’t think she’s bad, but that movie wasn’t the best. But like, they also both have a somewhat of a problem with they kind of blend together, in terms of like, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] what happened in the fourth one versus the fifth one versus the eighth one.

Fernanda: Yes. Absolutely.

Danielle: Now, I think just ’cause I’m so Alien oriented, I can keep them pretty straight. [Fernanda laughs] And I also actually like Prometheus.

Fernanda: Yeah, it’s a good movie.

Danielle: And I actually like Alien: Resurrection.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: I think they’re like kind of pieces of shit, but I like them.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Whereas I wouldn’t be able to say that about like Terminator 4, 5, 12, whatever.

Fernanda: Me neither.

Danielle: Like, I couldn’t tell you I actually liked them, partially because I could not tell you what happens in the various ones. Like I know Sarah Connor is like…not Sarah Connor, the like wife of John Connor. [laughs] Now it’s getting weird. Like, John Connor’s wife is like Claire Danes in one of them, I think?

Fernanda: Is she? Oh my God, I’m confused.

Danielle: See, this is what– this is the problem. Whereas I can actually like keep track of like, okay, this wacky shit happened in Alien: Resurrection, but they both are long-running franchises with like truly beloved, iconic, you know, foundational sci-fi stories.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: Especially in the first couple of movies. So, it’s one of those things where I kind of want to hear how you feel about some of this, where it’s like, do you still have enough love for the foundational kind of product to go and be excited about a movie in this franchise as well? ‘Cause like, I’ll go see everything that’s Alien, even if it’s like a pile of flaming shit. Like, I’ll see it, you know, just to see it.

Fernanda: Uh, not at all, honestly.

Danielle: Okay. Gotcha, gotcha.

Fernanda: And it goes back and forward in time, right?

Danielle: Mm-hmm.

Fernanda: And then it’s hard. Like, I am not one of those people. Like, I don’t fall in love with the universe, I’ll say this.

Danielle: Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

Fernanda: I fall in love with the piece. For instance, with Alien, I like Alien and Aliens.

Danielle: Sure.

Fernanda: I like Alien 3, but…

Danielle: Sure, sure.

Fernanda: Different thing. And with Terminator, I like Terminator and Terminator 2. The most recent one I was actually excited about, because I knew Linda Hamilton was in it.

Danielle: Right. And I love her and Mackenzie Davis, so I’m like sitting here thinking, maybe!

Fernanda: Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Danielle: But it sounds like you saw it. I don’t know. Was it all right?

Fernanda: That’s the thing. I don’t remember much from it.

Danielle: Ah, yes.

Fernanda: I was excited to watch it, and like you said, I also love Mackenzie Davis [Danielle: “Yes”] is what I was gonna say. So it was kind of like, oh, Linda Hamilton is back, Mackenzie Davis.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: It’s a very like female-driven plot. From my recollection their T-1000 or whoever the Terminator is is incredibly scary. I just remember finding it an interesting movie and loving Linda Hamilton in it, but…

Danielle: Sure, sure.

Fernanda: I don’t remember much of it. I just, that’s the thing, I don’t feel tied to a specific universe. I don’t feel obligated to watch it unless it excites me. The Christian Bale stuff, I don’t even remember if I’ve watched it, to be perfectly honest.

Danielle: Oh my God! That’s right. He was John Connor!

Fernanda: Christian Bale exists in the Terminator universe.

Danielle: Oh my God.

Fernanda: And Claire Danes was on Terminator 3, you were right, Rise of the Machines.

Danielle: It was, yes, yes, yes.

Fernanda: I totally forgot about that. But yeah, so my allegiance is to Terminator 1 and 2.

Danielle: Gotcha, gotcha. That’s fair.

Fernanda: And again, ’cause that’s also my thing, like I love some modern action movies. We talked about Mad Max: Fury Road. Perfect, a masterpiece.

Danielle: Yes! Yes.

Fernanda: But in general, my sensibility align more with eighties and nineties action movies, so.

Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Fair. Very fair.

Fernanda: And that’s kind of what I wanted to get into, since we talked a little bit about some of the characters, the sort of general feel of the movie.

Danielle: Yes.

Fernanda: You talked about associating it more with the eighties?

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: Which I absolutely–

Danielle: I don’t know why. [laughs]

Fernanda: I understand. I understand what you mean.

Danielle: Sure, sure.

Fernanda: ‘Cause it…and that’s the thing for me that I find so intriguing, because it does have an eighties feel, but it also has a nineties feel, even though it’s ‘91, and it kind of feels like it both encompasses the decades and kind of advances them, if that makes any sense?

Danielle: Yeah, I mean, especially the effects.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: Like, the effects, I agree completely. And I also agree with loving them. Even if they look a little bit dated, I really love them.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: I like genuinely like the way that the liquid metal looks [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] and the way that, you know, the human form—or humanoid form, I suppose—like reforms and is like recompiled in strange and interesting ways. Like, I actually…I do like that, and that does feel very much like, okay, this looks like an eighties effect, but it’s filmed on a nineties camera, but it also looks really good and has like an interesting and weird texture. I don’t know. I’m tripping over my words now, but there is something specifically about the effects that put it in such a specific place and time [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] that is very appealing to look at for me.

Fernanda: Yeah, and it’s like, for instance, with the effect– of course, granted, this was an extremely expensive movie, [Danielle: “Oh, yeah”] I think maybe the most expensive up to that point.

Danielle: Sure.

Fernanda: I don’t know for sure, but at least up there. It was, you know, so they have that going for them.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: But we’ve seen movies with big, big budgets completely fuck it up.

Danielle: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Fernanda: Again, I have a lot to talk.

Danielle: You might say later on in the Terminator franchise, you have a couple examples that, potentially. [both laugh] You know? So.

Fernanda: I just think the effects are smart, and they’re so creative.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: That happens in a way. And again, I know I keep coming back to this, but I do feel like sometimes a lot of 2000s stuff feels a lot more dated than 90s stuff because of that.

Danielle: Absolutely. Yes.

Fernanda: Right?

Danielle: Agreed.

Fernanda: I’ll give an example, because I was watching Silent Hill the day before yesterday.

Danielle: Ah, yeah.

Fernanda: Why was I watching Silent Hill? I don’t know. [laughs] But I was watching…

Danielle: Listen, we all have moods, you know? We all have our moods, and I would never go to judge anyone’s moods when it comes to films. So, you know. [laughs]

Fernanda: Jordan, our wonderful producer, is just saying, “That movie’s all right.” All right is a good word for it.

Danielle: All right. All right. Yeah.

Fernanda: It has its moments. But I hadn’t watched it in a long time and did not remember. Rodrigo hadn’t watched it, my husband. So I was like, okay, let’s watch it, I remember there being some creepy stuff. And there are some interesting thoughts, but the effects look very strange. This is a much more modern movie than Terminator 2. There is a moment where there is a stab.

Danielle: Oh, yeah.

Fernanda: Spoiler alert, Radha Mitchell gets stabbed in the heart. She doesn’t die, though, other spoiler. [Danielle laughs] And the stab is so bad. I’m like, how could you fuck up a stab? Like, literally.

Danielle: Right.

Fernanda: This is like, you can do practical effects with this stab. Like, there are fake knives. I know. I’ve seen them. There is good fake blood. This is like terrible CGI. And then watching that and then Terminator 2 the next day was just such a contrast for me, ’cause it was like, Terminator 2, within its technical limitations, I think you find such interesting stylistic solutions [Danielle: “Yes”] that it makes up for the shortcomings, and the effects are still like pretty good. For instance, a scene that sticks with me that I really love is Patrick going through the bars in the [Danielle: “Yeah!”] mental institution. It’s so good! It’s so well made. It’s so interesting. I keep thinking about how much time it must have taken for them to accomplish that particular scene, and I’m guessing a lot of time and a lot of money, and it looks it. So, while I do…it’s one interesting thing for me. And then that could be something to do with my affection for the movie, of course. While I do feel like it is of a time, it feels also modern in other ways.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: Right? And the visual identity of it, I just really, really love it, because I feel like it’s a movie that would work in snapshots. Like beautiful photographs could be taken from basically every frame, but still you know that they belong to that movie. So when I talk about, you know, there’s no such thing as perfection– and I’ll get into it. There’s a review that I read on Slant that kind of touches on the sort of more negative aspects, [Danielle: “Sure”] and I think it makes some really valid points, but to me, this, when it comes to like a straight up honest to God action movie, it’s just very hard to beat, because it’s got, you know, it’s got a perfect like little visual identity that just speaks to it. It’s got—your favorite word, Danielle—texture.

Danielle: Yeah! [laughs]

Fernanda: Texture for days. It’s got, you know, that little bit of humor. It’s got the sort of like the emotional aspect of it, and not just with Sarah Connor, but also in the bonding between T-800 and John Connor, which is a little sentimental and schlocky in some ways, [Danielle: “Sure, sure”] but like, I was watching the scene of John Connor teaching T-800 to sound more human in the car [Danielle laughs] for the hundredth time, and I still laughed.

Danielle: Yeah, it’s really good. It’s really, really well done.

Fernanda: Right?

Danielle: Yeah. Yeah.

Fernanda: It still works, so it’s got that. It’s got the sort of like the, quote, unquote, message, that is not too in your face. It doesn’t get too philosophical. It’s got, you know, like it’s got motive, it’s got reasons. The soundtrack? Amazing.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: “You Could Be Mine” just works perfectly. They use it so well. So just, I feel like if you’re gonna like…and you know, they accomplish a lot. It’s a longer movie. We were talking about [Danielle: “Sure”] Robocop being one hour 40. This is a little over two hours, and I will say, I do feel like sometimes the action extends itself more than maybe it needed to.

Danielle: Yeah, yeah.

Fernanda: Could go back and trip a couple things. But all in all, I do feel like it just…for the genre [Danielle: “Yes”] and like for what it wants to be, [Danielle: “Yeah”] it truly is like pretty close to perfect. What do you think?

Danielle: Yeah, I think it…I think it takes you on that ride. And for me, when a movie can take me on that ride, even if I’m not psyched, you know, especially psyched to go on that ride, [Fernanda laughs] it’s absolutely– you know, I just mean like, in terms of like, were you not in the perfect mood for an action movie.

Fernanda: Yeah. Yeah.

Danielle: But it fucking made you pumped up anyway, made you want to go do some pullups, [Fernanda laughs] made you want to go save the world, made you care about humans a little bit! Like, did it do that for you? Then it fucking did it.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: And this movie does that for me. And like, that’s incredibly important and an incredibly like useful thing to have in my life, even, you know? Like, I need pump up stuff. I need a lot of pump up stuff. And this is like old reliable pump up material, right here.

Fernanda: It is.

Danielle: From the first shot we see of her doing the pull-ups to the absolute fucking banger of the thumbs up in the Promethean flames of unmaking at the end. [Fernanda laughs] Like, what a ride. And like, yes, I do think you could leverage some criticism against it. I do think, you know, you can look at it as being like a fairly prototypical action movie.

Fernanda: It is, yeah.

Danielle: Like, sure, sure. It’s not like the plot is like going through any wild twists or anything like that.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: And it doesn’t need to. This movie knows what it is, and it’s doing an amazing job on every level, I think. And it really, really is like, again, it is getting you to those emotions. It’s getting you to have those feelings, and it’s working on all the levels, on all the aesthetic levels. So, it is a timeless classic. I know we’ve been talking about time a lot, and I guess that’s maybe a joke, ’cause it is sort of a time travel movie, kind of? I mean, there’s only like 10 seconds in the future, but they had to travel. [laughs]

Fernanda: They do travel through time, [Danielle: “Yeah”] so I think it qualifies as a time travel movie.

Danielle: Yeah. There you go.

Fernanda: But the thing is, and yeah, like the plot– and here’s the thing, right? To me, any time travel movie [Danielle: “Yeah”] is stupid.

Danielle: For sure. Sure.

Fernanda: [laughs] I may enjoy it, but it’s stupid. If you dig into it, like there’s gonna be ridiculous holes. Like, I still don’t understand: if Kyle Reese only came to the past because John Connor sent him, and John Connor only existed because he fucked Sarah Connor, how? It doesn’t make sense.

Danielle: I know.

Fernanda: It’s a fucking logical loop. [laughs]

Danielle: I know. I guess you have to do the thing where it’s like, you created another timeline.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: That like, okay, you made a change, [Fernanda: “Yeah”] and now this actually changed things forever.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: And like, something had to exist before that, but now you’ve changed things, and now it’s another timeline, [Fernanda: “Yeah”] and maybe that other timeline does keep existing somewhere in the universe, and our brains just aren’t big enough to understand how to hold multiple universes in our brain. I guess that’s the mental fucking gymnastics I do with that kind of shit, but I completely agree. Like, it really is like…it really is like, what’s the opposite of plot armor? It’s like plot debuff or something, right? [both laugh] Like, it’s just like, all right, go with it, I guess. [laughs] You know?

Fernanda: Yeah, but that’s it. That’s exactly what I have to do, right?

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: Like some things like, oh, I have– I’m coming– like even, you know, Arnold comes back from the future and is like, “Well, my directive is to obey you at all costs.” And it’s like, would they do– why– why? Like, would you obey a teenager? Like, would they send you from the future and say, “Obey this teenager”?

Danielle: Right, he’s like 10 in this movie, right? Like, he’s like a child, a baby child. [laughs]

Fernanda: A literal child. And exactly what Sarah says like, oh, like you should have survived the mission, you should have like worried about yourself, and you did this dangerous thing breaking in and trying to rescue me. And well, I guess you could argue that maybe he needs Sarah to become who he needs to be, and we can do all this sort of logical, you know, contortionism that we need to make this fit in our heads.

Danielle: Right.

Fernanda: And like you said, I feel like just, yeah, there was a rip through the time space continuum, and all things can exist simultaneously.

Danielle: And now there’s a little bit of hope for the future, as we drive at midnight in the same shot [Fernanda laughs] that we talked about earlier, which is like honestly delightful.

Fernanda: It is!

Danielle: I do like that it’s like a little bit like…it’s a little bit pretentious to use that word, I know.

Fernanda: It is.

Danielle: I know. I know it’s a bad word that we shouldn’t use all the time, but like, a little?

Fernanda: I agree, yeah.

Danielle: But it’s, I don’t care, because it’s earned, ‘cause it’s like, yeah, we’re driving on the highway at midnight. We’re thinking about time and shit. I have a theory, and this, I guess, maybe slightly goes into this, but that Americans are only fully honest and like fully in their feelings while they’re driving.

Fernanda: Hmm.

Danielle: And like, that’s when they get really philosophical and really like, “You know, man?” and that’s like when Americans [Fernanda laughs] like to talk about the future and about big philosophical ideas, and that this is Sarah Conner doing that for us.

Fernanda: Okay.

Danielle: You know, we have the shot of like the highway at night and she’s like, “Now I’ve got hope for the future.” [Fernanda laughs] Like, thinking about her driving with her little sunglasses, ’cause of course she wears sunglasses at night, ’cause that’s the kind of person she is. And she’s just like sitting there with John, teaching him life lessons and being like, “John, I’ve got hope for the future now, as we’re driving and I’m honest with you.” So, there you go. My headcanon of what’s going on in that shot. [laughs] You’re very welcome.

Fernanda: It was a past before podcasts ruined everything for us.

Danielle: Ah, it’s true.

Fernanda: ‘Cause now we don’t have to be alone with our thoughts anymore.

Danielle: Yeah, it’s true.

Fernanda: So instead of like pondering about life in long drives, we’re listening about murder, or maybe that’s just me and a lot of other white ladies.

Danielle: No, no, that’s a good point. That’s a good point.

Fernanda: So, maybe–

Danielle: When can Americans be honest anymore? Nowhere, and that’s the problem with life. [Fernanda laughs] We solved it!

Fernanda: Maybe the new inevitable Terminator should deal with how podcasts brought about the demise of mankind.

Danielle: I think that’s what it is. And like, so it’s gonna be like a little hard drive like going into the fire at the end, like the [laughs, hums song from movie] and it’s like a little hard drive burning up, and that’s somehow all the podcasts. I don’t know. [both laugh]

Fernanda: In the hard drive. [Danielle hums song briefly] I personally love the sort of recourse of like, I’m just gonna put a voiceover to like tie loose ends. [laughs]

Danielle: Me too! I don’t care if it’s corny. I love it!

Fernanda: It’s so cheesy! Even like, okay. We all understood that there’s like a dad-like bond forming between John and T-800, [Danielle: “Yes”] but in case that wasn’t very clear, we’re gonna put Sarah voiceover out of nowhere [Danielle laughs] in there to like explain this to us in no uncertain terms.

Danielle: In like fucking detective novel terms, right?

Fernanda: Exactly.

Danielle: Like, “It was a sane choice in an insane time.” Like, yes! Honestly, I love that.

Fernanda: I love it.

Danielle: I love it. Like, I don’t…

Fernanda: I love it.

Danielle: I love corn and cheese. I do.

Fernanda: Exactly.

Danielle: Like, it belongs in an action movie. Action movies can be cartoonish. We can be cartoonish with the action. You know, dudes are getting bullet holes all over them, and they’re fine. Like, that’s a little cartoonish, right?

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: So it’s fine to be a little cartoonish with the schmaltz as well, like lay it on. Honestly, give me the schmaltz. I enjoy it. I will eat it up for dinner and enjoy it.

Fernanda: And again, we talked about this, right? There’s a time and place for everything.

Danielle: There is. Yeah.

Fernanda: Like when I talk about really thinking this movie is near perfect, I talk about it being near perfect for what it is.

Danielle: Yes.

Fernanda: Like, you’re not gonna fucking compare it to some freaking, I don’t know, Goddard shit. Like, these are in–

Danielle: [laughs] Right.

Fernanda: They exist in like fucking Orson Wells. Like, they exist in entirely different planes, and you’re gonna be frustrated if you want one to be like the other.

Danielle: That’s true. Yes.

Fernanda: That’s just not gonna happen. So within this universe, like again, we can look at it with our 2022 eyes and make some different choices here and there, but as a general thing, I feel like this cheese works. I did read a Slant, like I was mentioning, a Slant review by Chuck Bowen.

Danielle: Yes.

Fernanda: It’s from 2017 and it’s a lot of words, so I’m not gonna [Danielle: “Sure”] read the whole thing, [Danielle: “Sure”] but it does have some valid– it makes some like interesting thought experiments about how, you know, James Cameron did the thing where John teaches the T-800 not to kill, and that makes us as an audience feel more at ease, because we’re inserted in this like super ultra violent sort of universe.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: And he mentions James Cameron is the specialist at making super violent content for children. [Danielle laughs] And again, The Terminator is part of children’s universe. It’s like Robocop, and I would argue Robocop makes a lot less sense for a child to watch than Terminator 2, maybe not 1.

Danielle: A hundred percent, yeah.

Fernanda: Right? [laughs]

Danielle: A hundred percent, yes.

Fernanda: Terminator 1 is darker. Terminator 2

Danielle: It’s much darker, yeah.

Fernanda: It’s got a more hopeless feel, I think, throughout.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: Terminator 2 is more like a actiony schlock. And he sort of relieves our guilt as, you know, viewers, because we don’t get to root for people dying, which is interesting. And then, you know, at the end– again, won’t read the whole thing, but he makes a comment, and I quote, “Striving for an epic, Cameron overdoes the repetitive scenes of familial bonding and vehicle and building shattering chaos, [Danielle laughs] and its pointed disinterest in the existential quandaries raised by the machines, particularly by the T-1000’s fluid identity grows increasingly distracting throughout the film. Why doesn’t the T-1000 better use its gift for shapeshifting, which is clearly inspired by the creature of John Carpenter’s The Thing? Because Cameron is obsessed with pummeling momentum above individual specificity. If his work has a philosophy, it’s one of ceaseless, pragmatic exertion.”

And he goes on to talk about how that philosophy is smart in T2, because by—and again, his words—sloppy convictionless sentimentality, and kind of talks about how the duality of Schwarzenegger’s like sort of kindergarten cop, you know, cute cuddly thing, how it contrasts with the sort of the killer machine that he is, and like that it’s good for friction, but that it kind of like flattens the film.

Danielle: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Fernanda: While I don’t necessarily agree, it’s not my experience watching it, I can understand where he’s coming from. Like you were saying, like I think it’s a very straightforward action movie in many ways, including the way in which like a lot of it is not meant to do anything but entertain, [Danielle: “Sure”] but to be like mindless fun. And as we were talking about, like, to me, that works within its context.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: If that’s what you’re looking for, if that’s what you want out of a movie, that’s what you’re gonna get. It does it in a way that a lot of action movies that came afterward, I think, failed to do, because then they can be all that and boring. They can be all that and soulless. They can be all that and just like visually generic, [Danielle: “Yeah”] to the point where, like you were saying, things just meld together in our mind, while I feel like movies like T2 and Robocop, they manage to stand out whether you like them or not. They exist in their own little universe.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: To me, it’s just really honestly an achievement, but in the realm of negatives, Danielle, [Danielle: “Yeah”] is there anything else you wanted to bring up?

Danielle: Yeah, I mean, for me again, like this and Aliens both have the…it’s a, again, I wouldn’t call this like a bad thing necessarily, but it is something that is very like, okay, they’re both movies that care a lot about the family unit, right? And like, what does a family unit do? And they’re both, again, interestingly working without having like sort of a hetero romance at the front and center of it, which is sort of like, okay, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] I can deal with that.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: But I do understand what this critic is saying. Like, there is a real-ass thing here in terms of, okay, a person who has generally anti-war sentiment and is making an anti-war, you know, that’s kind of the thesis here, that humans make war and we gotta stop that from happening. Like, ah, your kind destroys itself. Like, that’s kind of the thesis here. That’s the message here. But it is also like an action movie with a lot of fucking explosions and a lot of things blowing up, [Fernanda: “Mm-hmm”] and it has a lot of fun with its toys, right? And like, there is a fundamental critical bit of grappling there, right, between the two.

Fernanda: Mm-hmm.

Danielle: So I do…I don’t think this is like Terminator 2‘s fault, is the thing. I wouldn’t attribute this like to this movie and say this is like, oh, you know, this movie could never be good because of this. So, you know, I’m not sure if that’s exactly what this person is saying, I haven’t read the whole thing, but I do agree that this is a fundamental issue with action movies that aren’t like pro-war. Right?

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Like, that is a fundamental thing about the action genre that like, it is true both that human beings can be atrocious to each other and that’s fucking horrible. And too, it’s fun to fucking blow shit up. Like, we all know this. We all were children who enjoyed throwing blocks around the room. It doesn’t mean we actually want to kill people or hurt people, but that there is something fun about destruction, right?

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Like, there is just something very core to our id that is like fun about like watching the fake truck, you know, crash through the bridge or whatever it is, right? Like, these are two ideas that are in conflict. And again, I would argue that’s like core to the action genre, and how much a movie like acknowledges how much it’s playing in that space versus like, you know, is like relatively sober and saying like, “War is bad! But also I am gonna have a fucking blast with my metal dude who’s liquid metal who’s stabbing the shit out of people and running around in the truck.” Like, this is just an issue with the genre, I think.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: And with, frankly, with film and fiction in general. Like, humans are complicated little critters. We have a lot of shit going on upstairs, and some of it’s kind of ugly, [Fernanda: “Yeah”] and some of it isn’t as ugly as we tell ourselves it is, you know?

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Both of those are true. And that…I agree with this general core statement about like, no, maybe you’re not making the perfect like anti-war sentiment here [Fernanda: “Yeah”] because you’re having so much fun with blowing shit up. [Fernanda laughs] But I also think that like, it’s okay for a movie to…you know, I do actually think it’s okay for a movie to contradict itself.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: And that, you know, there are problems with certain genres, and that doesn’t mean that like, oh, that something can’t be fucking awesome and an interesting piece of art, even, and a piece of art that’s worth looking at and talking about, and critiquing [Fernanda: “Yeah”] and criticizing when appropriate. But it is also true that this movie is incredibly entertaining. It does have these amazing performances and does have like a message that is good, even if you are maybe inherently undermining it by having a lot of fun with explosives. [Fernanda laughs] Like, I have room in my brain for both, personally, and I think that most people do, [laughs] to be honest, you know?

Fernanda: I agree with you. Yeah.

Danielle: So, there you have it.

Fernanda: We talk about this a lot.

Danielle: [laughs] Yeah, we talk about this a lot, yeah.

Fernanda: Yeah, because like, you, in your like particular fondness for the horror genre, which is not without its flaws, right?

Danielle: Of course!

Fernanda: Especially in the way [Danielle: “Yeah”] it’s been executed over the years. And me with the action genre, like, [Danielle: “Yes”] we can be people who…we, again, Danielle, contain multitudes.

Danielle: [laughs] Yes.

Fernanda: But in this particular review, this is the part that I thought was very interesting.

Danielle: Sure.

Fernanda: When he talks exactly about that, this contradiction, I just want to end with the final line, because he talks about how the recycling of Terminator and Aliens underscores that, and I quote, “his true passion resides in the very effects and violence that he’s forced himself to consciously decry in this narrative.”

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: “Cameron’s at war with the crass Megaplex culture that he helped to pioneer. He’s Miles Dyson.”

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: And it’s like: [gasps]

Danielle: There it is. [laughs]

Fernanda: Ooh. He is.

Danielle: He kinda is! He kinda is, but it’s not necessarily as big a problem as maybe this critic thinks it is? I don’t know. [laughs]

Fernanda: Exactly.

Danielle: You know?

Fernanda: Exactly.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: I’m right there with you. I’m like, yeah, I can see it, but also I still fucking love it, so.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: You can see my predicament, which, by the way– [both laugh]

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: We’re about to wrap up soon, but [Danielle: “Yeah”] justice for Miles Dyson, I guess, who suffered [Danielle: “Yeah”] a gruesome, gruesome death [Danielle: “Ah, yeah”] that was less lamented than the death of an actual robot.

Danielle: Right. [Fernanda laughs] Right, my guy got a little screwed. Like, I think my guy got a little screwed.

Fernanda: He got screwed.

Danielle: And he is such a classic like Frankenstein story of like, oh, you know, my creation kind of thing, you know?

Fernanda: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Danielle: Oh, playing with fire, the Promethean sort of myth. I don’t know why I’m all about Prometheus today. I’ve mentioned it like three times, both the like real goofy, not great, but kind of fun movie, and also like the actual Prometheus myth, ’cause I keep calling it that, the fire at the end in the foundry.

Fernanda: It all goes back to Prometheus.

Danielle: I guess it all does, you know, but it really– he really is the like guy who’s playing with fire here, right? So I guess it’s one of those, but I do feel a little bad for my guy. He seems like a nice dude.

Fernanda: Dude.

Danielle: He has a nice family. Like, he’s just a scientist, right? He’s not trying to like kill everyone, you know?

Fernanda: He believed them right away, and he was like, no questions asked.

Danielle: He did! He was down.

Fernanda: He saw the dude’s mechanic arm. [laughs]

Danielle: Yeah, he was down to try to unmake the bad thing. Like, he really was. My guy was down, so.

Fernanda: I was like, I wouldn’t have done that! If somebody comes to ??? like, “You destroy a thing,” first of all, I’d be like, “I’m not smart enough [Danielle laughs] to destroy the planet, by the way.”

Danielle: Humanity. [laughs]

Fernanda: For starters. Okay, let’s start with that. Like, no, I’m just gonna go quit. and they’re like, “Oh, that’s not enough.” Oh, you want me to also destroy my life’s work and probably commit a crime and put myself in harm in the process?

Danielle: Right.

Fernanda: Sure. Let’s fucking go. [Danielle laughs] He does the right thing, and then he’s a hero, [Danielle: “He is!”] and then he dies. And we don’t have time to go into this debate, because we’ve also talked about how often people of color serve as sort of like this hero sacrifice in the movie.

Danielle: Yeah, yes. Yes.

Fernanda: We had this discussion. When was it? Was it with The Core? I think it was The Core.

Danielle: We did. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: We super did. Which in The Core, I remembered it being kind of worse than it was in the movie, so it’s like, yeah, it’s one of those that like…

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Can kind of see this, yeah, for sure.

Fernanda: Yeah. At the same time, he’s like a genius fucking scientist who is even smart enough to destroy the planet, and who among us can say that?

Danielle: Right?

Fernanda: I sure as hell cannot. [laughs]

Danielle: It’s true. I can’t. Yeah.

Fernanda: Miles Dyson, you almost destroyed everything. Good on you. That’s an achievement. Without even wanting to.

Danielle: Good on you for like seeing the error of your ways ’cause like a really strange robot man came in, [Fernanda laughs] and also like a really, you know, kind of scary looking white lady did shoot you a little bit. That’s not the best thing that ever happened. [laughs] And then her son came in and stopped. Like, the thing, the wildest thing to think about is this movie from like the point of view of his family.

Fernanda: Yeah.

Danielle: Like they’re just hanging, they’re having a normal-ass day, and then these three come in, [Fernanda laughs] and it’s like, what? What?

Fernanda: ‘Cause like, this lady comes like, not just shooting, like with a free machine gun.

Danielle: With like an arsenal from an army.

Fernanda: Completely blasting their house.

Danielle: Yeah, like, what?

Fernanda: And then this little kid with a Public Enemy T-shirt [Danielle: “Right?”] comes in with this big dude who has an arm that is like a machine, [Danielle: “Yeah”] and they all tell you they’re from the future. Like, I…yeah. I need the sequel about how this family… [laughs]

Danielle: Honestly. Terminator 3 should been about them, I think. I think it should have been.

Fernanda: With the fucking trauma that they were just put through.

Danielle: Yeah. Seriously.

Fernanda: But I guess I’ll do one final mention to Arnie the OG. We didn’t even talk about him. [Danielle: “Oh, yes”] during the show, ’cause I feel like there’s no need, but I will say that every time someone criticizes Arnie as an actor, I just need to show them T2 and be like, tell me this is not range. Tell me this is not warmth.

Danielle: That’s true.

Fernanda: Tell me this is not depth. Tell me this is not, you know, Oscars, Golden Globes, Lifetime Achievement Award stuff, because he went from being just an emotionless killing machine in one movie to this warm and fuzzy also killing machine but who doesn’t kill anymore, [Danielle laughs] just shoots knees in the second movie. Like, growth.

Danielle: That is growth. That is growth! And like we talked about last week on Robocop, genuinely projects warmth and humor and human emotion, even though he’s a robot who doesn’t really have many emotions. He’s doing it. He is charming, and he’s interesting to watch in this whole movie doing that thing. So he’s got it. I think he’s got it. Arnie’s got it.

Fernanda: So, I feel– okay. I feel like I got a lot of my chest in this one, Danielle.

Danielle: Yeah. Yeah.

Fernanda: But do you have anything else you want to discuss before we move into our final segment of this show?

Danielle: No, I feel very good about this. I feel very, very, very good about this.

Fernanda: So I feel like we are ready, geared up with our machine guns and cool sunglasses, [Danielle laughs] to move into the final segment of the show, which we like to call Shelf Life.


Fernanda: So, here we are: Shelf Life, the last but certainly not least segment of the show, which is when we decide where the movie that we just discussed belongs in our beautiful neighborhood video store. Is it a bonafide staff pick to be displayed proudly? Is it a middle aisle placement? Which, totally fine. No shame in that. Or does it belong in the dumpster out back? Danielle, what is your verdict?

Danielle: I think this is a staff pick. I don’t see it going any other way than being displayed proudly right up there with Robocop, right up there with Mad Max, like as a great action movie, like an all time great action movie. It is a classic, and I think it’s on our staff picks shelf.

Fernanda: I feel like my opinion here is probably a little predictable. [both laugh]

Danielle: Oh, you’re saying the dumpster? No.

Fernanda: Ah, yes. Hate it. [Danielle laughs] This was all a big prank.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: I actually hate this movie, and I just wanted to make you think I liked it, because reasons.

Danielle: [laughs] It’s a long time.

Fernanda: ‘Cause I’m a troll. [laughs] My whole participation on this show has been a whole troll job for no reason.

Danielle: I can’t believe it. [laughs]

Fernanda: No, for me, it’s obviously, clearly a staff pick. I admit, like I came into it sort of like expecting to put it there. We’ve talked about this.

Danielle: Sure.

Fernanda: We’ve mentioned this in the past, and we all know that this is one of my personal favorites, but again, and we judge based on what the movie is setting out to do, what the movie wants to offer, the experience, the feeling. And judging all of that, I cannot place this beautiful movie anywhere else. So, it’s a pretty easy staff pick, and again, I feel like this might be a month where things go a lot that direction. [laughs]

Danielle: I think so too. I think so too. We might be doing bangers this month. That might be what we’re doing. Yeah.

Fernanda: We are kind of picking our favorites, but yeah.

Danielle: Yeah.

Fernanda: So I guess that settles it. Another beautiful staff pick to be displayed proudly [Danielle: “Yes”] in our beautiful video store. And that is all for this week. Thank you as usual to my wonderful co-host for joining me. Thank you all at home for listening. Thank you to our fantastic producer, Jordan “You say no problemo” Mallory [Danielle laughs] for helping make this show rule.

If you’re tired of listening to us and you want to say some stuff too, that’s cool, because we also happen to love hearing from you. So if you’d like to get in touch with us, by all means, head on over to our Discord at fanbyte.casa or send us an email to YLTSI@fanbyte.com. That’s our initials. You can send us your reviews, your recommendations, your questions, any general feedback. Everything is appreciated. We might even read it on the show, who knows? We love to read it anyway.

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